Thanks Joe. I spent about an hour early this morning trying to work out what value The Mill could add for readers in this situation, and helping people cut through the noise seemed like the most useful move.
Well, good choice! There's a lot of confusion on this and yours is the best write up I've seen. I've shared it around so hopefully others will find it useful too.
I think it s will be easier in some ways because less students will be in this group but yea protocol will have to change plus I won t be able to get close with residents as regular semesters @Aya Halwah
So....these figures are positive tests per 100,000 population, ok, how does that account for differences in testing rates? It seems if you had more tests done one week the rate of positives would naturally increase.
This strike me as a response to the up coming mass gatherings for Eid and nowt else. I have absolutely no faith in these figures the criteria used for their selection, the way they are gathered and the conclusions drawn from them. mind you at 76 I am cynical of all political propaganda and alarmist crap.
Im 74, and I want to hear the real truth and all the truth, without fear or favour! We've had figures by borough, but where are the figures by household size? inter-generational households? and dare I ask ethnic origin? and religious beliefs and in my case, none? by what law s they adhere to?
The new restrictions are like a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Only certain people in certain households are breaking the rules - and we all know who they are!!- the majority/the rest of us have been sticking to the rules, however onerous they have been. Why does a minority have to spoil it for the majority?
I don't know who you think the people are, but on my street and around there are loads of people breaking the rules by having visitors to their homes and holding weekend house parties.
As the piece says, the numbers are increasing among young people, and I believe that the reopening of pubs has a lot to do with that. Alcohol and social-distancing are not good bedfellows.
Matt Hancock made it clear this morning, the real problem is .... that of families visiting each other's houses. Contact tracing has shown, the vast majority of infected people, have mainly been seeing friends and extended family, living nearby. Close, close relatives in extended kinship groupings, the obvious target.
And this is a very small - and easily identifiable target group. But we aren't allowed to talk about in public because we'd be accused of racism!!
Matt Hancock has yet to make anything clear to anybody. What you have described is exactly is what is happening in my 99% white neighbourhood, relatives visiting each other's houses. This rule-breaking isn't confined to one ethnic group.
Greater Manchester's deputy mayor is quoted in this article as saying ""We’ve certainly seen a significant increase in the number of younger people testing positive for Covid-19,” he said, adding that some young people were acting as if the pandemic was over. On parties and other social gatherings, he said: “We can be fairly certain that young people increasingly socialising in those sorts of ways will be a major reason why a far larger number of young people are now testing positive.”
My read is that you can't, unless those people are in your household or support bubble.
The gov't announcement says you should not 'socialise with people you do not live with in other indoor public venues – such as pubs, restaurants, cafes, shops, places of worship, community centres, leisure and entertainment venues, or visitor attractions.' It says: 'You may attend these venues with people you live with (or are in a support bubble with), but should avoid interaction with others.'
Clearly a no. If you were in country pub with a huge garden I suppose it could be done, but as lots of pubs consist of nothing more than a yard for a beer garden, how are people supposed to distance. So I suppose the powers that be, have made a blanket ban on beer gardens. Although not explicitly said, if you imagine the things they have said you can do, then everything else is off the table. A bit of reading in between the line and common sense is all that’s needed regarding beer gardens. They are not public spaces where 6 or more can meet. Btw, I have no opinion on this tbh.
If what you say is true, and I've no reason to doubt that opinion, then why didn't they say so in explicit terms, rather than leaving the statement open to multiple interpretations! I'm talking about pubs with big beer gardens, pre-allocated tables, social distancing etc., and I guess it all boils down to what is a public space.
So, you CAN meet up in beer gardens! Talk about mixed messages...
" Can I still meet people in the outdoor areas of cafes, restaurants or pubs, for example outdoor seating or a beer garden?
You can continue to meet in public outdoor spaces including outdoor seating or beer gardens in groups of no more than 6 people, unless the group includes only people from 2 households. You cannot meet people you do not live with in a private garden.
Great work on cutting through the noise on this, Joshi.
Thanks Joe. I spent about an hour early this morning trying to work out what value The Mill could add for readers in this situation, and helping people cut through the noise seemed like the most useful move.
Well, good choice! There's a lot of confusion on this and yours is the best write up I've seen. I've shared it around so hopefully others will find it useful too.
Ta
I think it s will be easier in some ways because less students will be in this group but yea protocol will have to change plus I won t be able to get close with residents as regular semesters @Aya Halwah
So....these figures are positive tests per 100,000 population, ok, how does that account for differences in testing rates? It seems if you had more tests done one week the rate of positives would naturally increase.
Hi Paul - I've tried to answer that question in our latest briefing, with figures from Trafford. Take a look.
This strike me as a response to the up coming mass gatherings for Eid and nowt else. I have absolutely no faith in these figures the criteria used for their selection, the way they are gathered and the conclusions drawn from them. mind you at 76 I am cynical of all political propaganda and alarmist crap.
Im 74, and I want to hear the real truth and all the truth, without fear or favour! We've had figures by borough, but where are the figures by household size? inter-generational households? and dare I ask ethnic origin? and religious beliefs and in my case, none? by what law s they adhere to?
The new restrictions are like a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Only certain people in certain households are breaking the rules - and we all know who they are!!- the majority/the rest of us have been sticking to the rules, however onerous they have been. Why does a minority have to spoil it for the majority?
I don't know who you think the people are, but on my street and around there are loads of people breaking the rules by having visitors to their homes and holding weekend house parties.
As the piece says, the numbers are increasing among young people, and I believe that the reopening of pubs has a lot to do with that. Alcohol and social-distancing are not good bedfellows.
Matt Hancock made it clear this morning, the real problem is .... that of families visiting each other's houses. Contact tracing has shown, the vast majority of infected people, have mainly been seeing friends and extended family, living nearby. Close, close relatives in extended kinship groupings, the obvious target.
And this is a very small - and easily identifiable target group. But we aren't allowed to talk about in public because we'd be accused of racism!!
Matt Hancock has yet to make anything clear to anybody. What you have described is exactly is what is happening in my 99% white neighbourhood, relatives visiting each other's houses. This rule-breaking isn't confined to one ethnic group.
Greater Manchester's deputy mayor is quoted in this article as saying ""We’ve certainly seen a significant increase in the number of younger people testing positive for Covid-19,” he said, adding that some young people were acting as if the pandemic was over. On parties and other social gatherings, he said: “We can be fairly certain that young people increasingly socialising in those sorts of ways will be a major reason why a far larger number of young people are now testing positive.”
that's why we need more facts and figures on what is really going on! The Office of National Statistics collects enough data - it should release more!
Still no definitive word from anyone as to whether you can meet people outside your household in pub gardens.
My read is that you can't, unless those people are in your household or support bubble.
The gov't announcement says you should not 'socialise with people you do not live with in other indoor public venues – such as pubs, restaurants, cafes, shops, places of worship, community centres, leisure and entertainment venues, or visitor attractions.' It says: 'You may attend these venues with people you live with (or are in a support bubble with), but should avoid interaction with others.'
Clearly a no. If you were in country pub with a huge garden I suppose it could be done, but as lots of pubs consist of nothing more than a yard for a beer garden, how are people supposed to distance. So I suppose the powers that be, have made a blanket ban on beer gardens. Although not explicitly said, if you imagine the things they have said you can do, then everything else is off the table. A bit of reading in between the line and common sense is all that’s needed regarding beer gardens. They are not public spaces where 6 or more can meet. Btw, I have no opinion on this tbh.
If what you say is true, and I've no reason to doubt that opinion, then why didn't they say so in explicit terms, rather than leaving the statement open to multiple interpretations! I'm talking about pubs with big beer gardens, pre-allocated tables, social distancing etc., and I guess it all boils down to what is a public space.
So, you CAN meet up in beer gardens! Talk about mixed messages...
" Can I still meet people in the outdoor areas of cafes, restaurants or pubs, for example outdoor seating or a beer garden?
You can continue to meet in public outdoor spaces including outdoor seating or beer gardens in groups of no more than 6 people, unless the group includes only people from 2 households. You cannot meet people you do not live with in a private garden.
At all times, you should socially distance from people you do not live with – unless they are in your support bubble." From https://www.gov.uk/guidance/north-west-of-england-local-restrictions-what-you-can-and-cannot-do?fbclid=IwAR2oRI0bK04cQUD_Xl5pqKz33LTMPcMQKUJEc3FgoPgAUO3dOIuTwcxQSuw#history