Hey Mohammed! Thanks so much for reading. The last time I asked about this — which was in my last article, three years ago — my source told me "they only knew one person of colour who lived in the village and that this man moved in as the husband of a white woman who was already living there". There was also no openly gay villagers living there last time I checked (again, three years ago).
Absolutely superb, what a great piece. As someone with a passing interest in co-operative living and the social dynamics of groups, this was both enlightening and engaging. Superb.
In hindsight, could have probably picked another word to replace the second "superb" there. Blame the early hour and the Salisbury being open till 2am. Still a wonderful bit of writing :-)
Utterly brilliant story, in fact two parts of the story. It goes to show that journalists can take weeks, months or even years to assemble all the facts for a report. The amount of work that goes into producing a final conclusion is astonishing. We should all be careful about judging other groups of people but this report does it's very best to provide a balanced and even handed account. Many thanks for this.
Hi Paul, thanks for this comment! Just reading the dossier a couple of times took a few days as did shooting off emails to wrap my head round it, and I did wonder if anyone would notice! But you did — and that means a lot. The thing is, this is the bare minimum you have to do to get your head round a story and most journalists don't have the luxury of time that we do at the Mill. So very grateful to be at a company where we're given enough space to do the extra legwork.
Great article, strong notes of Jackie Weaver. Always been a bit jealous of places like this and Chorltonville, but in the end most people want their participation in their neighbourhoods to be a lot more voluntary.
Yeah, I imagine so. This said, I wonder if beneath all the fear about talking to journalists, there's also some lovely stuff that I'm not getting (because, much as people tend to only write google reviews of places if they love/hate them, I wonder if anyone who's just relatively satisfied in BGV would bother with the hassle of contacting a journalist and meeting them secretly etc). Maybe there's some gorgeous friendships that have sprung out of a place that has such a tight-knit community. Hard to say!
I have acquired a distaste for the Garden City ideal, mostly from watching Jonathan Meades documentaries (especially see "Heaven, Folkwoven in England", "Joy of Essex"). The strange anti-urban drive, the ossified architectural styles always chosen, and the idea that somehow, if we just build enough leafy avenues and twee mock-rural cottage-type semi-detached houses, it will improve all of us into better people. It weirds me out on some level, frankly.
This, therefore, was a strangely satisifying read on some level. The underlying ideology of the garden settlement draws much from similar roots as those small self-assembled collective groups - like the performance art group - that values democracy as a end alone, rather than as a means as well. It's no surprise that at such a small scale, this ideology has ossified into an opaque, cliquey power structure that cannot easily be understood or even accessed by outsiders; who seem to include a number of the residents of the 'village', judged by the length of tenure seemingly required to be one of the in crowd.
I do think also it's a lesson that maybe Lord Acton was wrong in a way; absolute power corrupts absolutely, but the smallest amount of power - a residents association, a parish council, a feminist performance art group - can actually drive people to the most ridiculous forms of tyranny. The end result is tinged with sadness; despite my huge reservations about garden settlements, there is at least an optimism to their ideal. That it has turned here in to what seems like a stifling, choking atmosphere isn't surprising, but that doesn't mean it can't also be sad as well.
Tim, I'm starting to think you should have written this piece as you clearly are much better informed than I am! Thanks for the documentary recommendations (or even if not explicitly meant as recs, I'm intending on diving in). And think this is very wise and true: "the smallest amount of power...can actually drive people to the most ridiculous forms of tyranny."
Oh, I have a very particular inclination on this stuff - not necessarily informed as much "irritated enough to watch BBC Four programmes" (!) I saw the Broughton book, which really is a good read.
Just be aware that Meades has a very distinctive style, and sometimes he's bloody good, and other times he's just downright bloody annoying. I hope you enjoy! They are all on YouTube for definitely legal reasons.
Haha, I'll bear that in mind about Meades' style, don't think I've watched any of his stuff before. And what's the Broughton book? You're a fount of knowledge! Will consult you before writing should I do any more garden village stuff!
Sep 2, 2023Liked by Mollie Simpson, Sophie Atkinson
I grew up in a rural village of about 5000 people, in another county, before moving to Manchester as an adult finding my first home. Petty as it all may seem from the outside, some of it feels rather too much like some of the experiences I had in my birthplace that drove me into a minor nervous breakdown when I was a young adult, including the rumours and their seeming triviality!
In my case such things included rumours about my mental stability and "activities", set off by someone I had believed trustworthy and kind, who had merely seen me step briefly into my front garden, in my pyjamas, to glance up and down the street to check the progress of the post delivery, and either decided as a result that I must be dangerously unbalanced, or that she could use that behaviour to make people think I was (and I still don't understand why she would do either). I was getting over the early death of my mother, at the time, which one might think would persuade older adults to cut me a little slack, but apparently not.
Not everybody is as resilient as they'd like to be. The sort of attitudes in a community that we seem to be seeing in BGV can be terribly corrosive over time, and even more so where the participants once got along well.
Trialia, this sounds so difficult! I'm sorry this happened to you. A bereavement followed by intense surveillance sounds pretty awful. Funnily enough, a long-time reader and writer of ours, Phil Griffin, said something similar about Burnage Garden Village when I interviewed him for the first place — not the sort of place you can nip to the shops in your PJs for a pint of milk. As much as cities get a bad rep for anonymity, it does feel like there's a certain freedom in living somewhere larger (I'm from Greater Manchester but also from a village within it, Hale, and certainly found some aspects of it a bit claustrophobic growing up there).
Interesting, and raises the thought ‘how much is this behaviour a cooperative issue’ ? Or is it found to a greater (!) or lesser degree in other clubs and societies. Angling, choirs, drama groups, political parties and on and on ?
It's a good point — and as someone who loves co-ops, I didn't want to sound like I thought the problem was innate to the co-op structure (as I say in the piece, I think it's about larger context — not being able to relocate to another co-op easily). But I would push back a bit against it being SUCH a similar situation in choirs, drama groups, political parties (you might be right on angling: Mollie's got a great story cooking which suggests there is no peace for anyone who loves fishing) because you don't have to live cheek to jowl with that person you don't get on with from choir!
I found this very interesting, for a number of reasons, but particularly because of the comments about how the residents could be effectively "trapped" and feel unable to move, even if they wanted to. I was living communally for much of the time when I was younger, and continuously so from 1975 to 1992. Nothing like BGV and no organisation outside the current household - we were renting, and later buying houses to live in together. There had to be rules, but they were nothing like as detailed as described in the article. But if someone was not happy, or their circumstances changed, there was nothing to prevent them from moving out with any penalty greater than inconvenience. There were many other communal houses around, and some people we lived with moved on (or we did) and later rejoined us. I found it a wonderfully supportive and stimulating way to live, though it took a lot of effort sometimes. True for our children too - my son later said, as an adult, "for a child, there was no down side." I'm sure that cannot have been a universal experience! We were human, and some fallings out were very unpleasant, but there are very few people with whom we lived during that time that we are not still in touch with, and it often feels more like having a large extended family than anything. It seems clear that there is, at the very least, a lot of defensiveness in BGV, which is sad.
Lovely to hear from someone who's seen the other side of this — I do think it must be gorgeous for children to live in a more communal set up (more attention from adults, less stress on parents, children presumably better socially adjusted from being around a lot of different people). But I have to applaud the fact that you're still in touch with most of the people from your communal living situation! Presumably you were very successful at making it work and there weren't too many arguments (or at least, not ones so poisonous that you lost touch afterwards). Thanks for reading and commenting!
I don't think I'd function particularly well in such a place. To have such issues constantly taking up brain space would be my worst nightmare. Life is short...
I recall that housing co-ops of some kind or other were promoted as the ideal when I was a young left winger. Yet reading this article ( and having read the previous one) , it seems that utopia is as far away as ever.
Housing co-ops are a bit like families - you don't have to like all the members, but somehow you have to try to get along with them. Burnage Village seems to have taken the family theme a bit further and their policy of omertà seems more rigorous than that of the mafia.
"Housing co-ops are a bit like families - you don't have to like all the members, but somehow you have to try to get along with them" - yes, couldn't agree more.
Fascinating and thought-provoking, as well as very sad. I do hope things somehow improve. It sounds as if they need their very own Truth and Reconciliation Commission ...
Thanks for the kind words and for giving this extremely long essay a read. Yes, good shout! Think they'd be overexcited to have one, from the sounds of things.
I wouldn’t last 5 minutes there. I can’t cope with this level of bureaucracy and process for everything, let alone the low level nastiness between neighbours.
It reads like their lives have become one long Handforth Parish Council meeting. How sad that such a lovely ideology has come to this.
Yes, exactly that — a lovely ideology that's descended into a lot of acrimony. As someone who would absolutely root for the ideas behind the village, I guess the question is: how do you solve it, or at least lessen the tension? And I've not quite figured this out — but maybe one of these days.
Fascinating. I have been visiting Burnage for decades but didn’t know Burnage Garden Village existed.
It sounds awfully claustrophobic. Do they have any ethnic minority residents?
Hey Mohammed! Thanks so much for reading. The last time I asked about this — which was in my last article, three years ago — my source told me "they only knew one person of colour who lived in the village and that this man moved in as the husband of a white woman who was already living there". There was also no openly gay villagers living there last time I checked (again, three years ago).
I don't think so - I know many of the residents as they shop at my garden centre, which is just around the corner.
Absolutely superb, what a great piece. As someone with a passing interest in co-operative living and the social dynamics of groups, this was both enlightening and engaging. Superb.
In hindsight, could have probably picked another word to replace the second "superb" there. Blame the early hour and the Salisbury being open till 2am. Still a wonderful bit of writing :-)
Hey! Thanks so much, this is very kind — and personally, I'll take two superbs over one!
Utterly brilliant story, in fact two parts of the story. It goes to show that journalists can take weeks, months or even years to assemble all the facts for a report. The amount of work that goes into producing a final conclusion is astonishing. We should all be careful about judging other groups of people but this report does it's very best to provide a balanced and even handed account. Many thanks for this.
Hi Paul, thanks for this comment! Just reading the dossier a couple of times took a few days as did shooting off emails to wrap my head round it, and I did wonder if anyone would notice! But you did — and that means a lot. The thing is, this is the bare minimum you have to do to get your head round a story and most journalists don't have the luxury of time that we do at the Mill. So very grateful to be at a company where we're given enough space to do the extra legwork.
Great article, strong notes of Jackie Weaver. Always been a bit jealous of places like this and Chorltonville, but in the end most people want their participation in their neighbourhoods to be a lot more voluntary.
Yeah, I imagine so. This said, I wonder if beneath all the fear about talking to journalists, there's also some lovely stuff that I'm not getting (because, much as people tend to only write google reviews of places if they love/hate them, I wonder if anyone who's just relatively satisfied in BGV would bother with the hassle of contacting a journalist and meeting them secretly etc). Maybe there's some gorgeous friendships that have sprung out of a place that has such a tight-knit community. Hard to say!
I have acquired a distaste for the Garden City ideal, mostly from watching Jonathan Meades documentaries (especially see "Heaven, Folkwoven in England", "Joy of Essex"). The strange anti-urban drive, the ossified architectural styles always chosen, and the idea that somehow, if we just build enough leafy avenues and twee mock-rural cottage-type semi-detached houses, it will improve all of us into better people. It weirds me out on some level, frankly.
This, therefore, was a strangely satisifying read on some level. The underlying ideology of the garden settlement draws much from similar roots as those small self-assembled collective groups - like the performance art group - that values democracy as a end alone, rather than as a means as well. It's no surprise that at such a small scale, this ideology has ossified into an opaque, cliquey power structure that cannot easily be understood or even accessed by outsiders; who seem to include a number of the residents of the 'village', judged by the length of tenure seemingly required to be one of the in crowd.
I do think also it's a lesson that maybe Lord Acton was wrong in a way; absolute power corrupts absolutely, but the smallest amount of power - a residents association, a parish council, a feminist performance art group - can actually drive people to the most ridiculous forms of tyranny. The end result is tinged with sadness; despite my huge reservations about garden settlements, there is at least an optimism to their ideal. That it has turned here in to what seems like a stifling, choking atmosphere isn't surprising, but that doesn't mean it can't also be sad as well.
Tim, I'm starting to think you should have written this piece as you clearly are much better informed than I am! Thanks for the documentary recommendations (or even if not explicitly meant as recs, I'm intending on diving in). And think this is very wise and true: "the smallest amount of power...can actually drive people to the most ridiculous forms of tyranny."
Oh, I have a very particular inclination on this stuff - not necessarily informed as much "irritated enough to watch BBC Four programmes" (!) I saw the Broughton book, which really is a good read.
Just be aware that Meades has a very distinctive style, and sometimes he's bloody good, and other times he's just downright bloody annoying. I hope you enjoy! They are all on YouTube for definitely legal reasons.
Haha, I'll bear that in mind about Meades' style, don't think I've watched any of his stuff before. And what's the Broughton book? You're a fount of knowledge! Will consult you before writing should I do any more garden village stuff!
I grew up in a rural village of about 5000 people, in another county, before moving to Manchester as an adult finding my first home. Petty as it all may seem from the outside, some of it feels rather too much like some of the experiences I had in my birthplace that drove me into a minor nervous breakdown when I was a young adult, including the rumours and their seeming triviality!
In my case such things included rumours about my mental stability and "activities", set off by someone I had believed trustworthy and kind, who had merely seen me step briefly into my front garden, in my pyjamas, to glance up and down the street to check the progress of the post delivery, and either decided as a result that I must be dangerously unbalanced, or that she could use that behaviour to make people think I was (and I still don't understand why she would do either). I was getting over the early death of my mother, at the time, which one might think would persuade older adults to cut me a little slack, but apparently not.
Not everybody is as resilient as they'd like to be. The sort of attitudes in a community that we seem to be seeing in BGV can be terribly corrosive over time, and even more so where the participants once got along well.
Trialia, this sounds so difficult! I'm sorry this happened to you. A bereavement followed by intense surveillance sounds pretty awful. Funnily enough, a long-time reader and writer of ours, Phil Griffin, said something similar about Burnage Garden Village when I interviewed him for the first place — not the sort of place you can nip to the shops in your PJs for a pint of milk. As much as cities get a bad rep for anonymity, it does feel like there's a certain freedom in living somewhere larger (I'm from Greater Manchester but also from a village within it, Hale, and certainly found some aspects of it a bit claustrophobic growing up there).
The situation you unveil is both hilarious and deeply sad.
I grew up nearby and had no idea there was this cesspit of authoritarianism nearby!
Oh interesting! Did you have any contact with BG villagers at local pubs at all?
Not that I knew of, but I was still a teenager, so not really my cohort
Interesting, and raises the thought ‘how much is this behaviour a cooperative issue’ ? Or is it found to a greater (!) or lesser degree in other clubs and societies. Angling, choirs, drama groups, political parties and on and on ?
It's a good point — and as someone who loves co-ops, I didn't want to sound like I thought the problem was innate to the co-op structure (as I say in the piece, I think it's about larger context — not being able to relocate to another co-op easily). But I would push back a bit against it being SUCH a similar situation in choirs, drama groups, political parties (you might be right on angling: Mollie's got a great story cooking which suggests there is no peace for anyone who loves fishing) because you don't have to live cheek to jowl with that person you don't get on with from choir!
The rules remind me of what many friends have told me about their allotment committees.
I found this very interesting, for a number of reasons, but particularly because of the comments about how the residents could be effectively "trapped" and feel unable to move, even if they wanted to. I was living communally for much of the time when I was younger, and continuously so from 1975 to 1992. Nothing like BGV and no organisation outside the current household - we were renting, and later buying houses to live in together. There had to be rules, but they were nothing like as detailed as described in the article. But if someone was not happy, or their circumstances changed, there was nothing to prevent them from moving out with any penalty greater than inconvenience. There were many other communal houses around, and some people we lived with moved on (or we did) and later rejoined us. I found it a wonderfully supportive and stimulating way to live, though it took a lot of effort sometimes. True for our children too - my son later said, as an adult, "for a child, there was no down side." I'm sure that cannot have been a universal experience! We were human, and some fallings out were very unpleasant, but there are very few people with whom we lived during that time that we are not still in touch with, and it often feels more like having a large extended family than anything. It seems clear that there is, at the very least, a lot of defensiveness in BGV, which is sad.
Lovely to hear from someone who's seen the other side of this — I do think it must be gorgeous for children to live in a more communal set up (more attention from adults, less stress on parents, children presumably better socially adjusted from being around a lot of different people). But I have to applaud the fact that you're still in touch with most of the people from your communal living situation! Presumably you were very successful at making it work and there weren't too many arguments (or at least, not ones so poisonous that you lost touch afterwards). Thanks for reading and commenting!
What a brilliant, detailed piece of journalism. Please, pleading do not change
Thank you so much for this very lovely comment! Won't do as long as we have readers like you :)) appreciate you taking the time to read this.
I might be marginally perverse but I really enjoyed reading this piece. Thanks.
I certainly feel marginally perverse for spending such a long time investigating this piece, haha. Thanks for reading!
I don't think I'd function particularly well in such a place. To have such issues constantly taking up brain space would be my worst nightmare. Life is short...
It certainly is! Yeah, I'm with you — have too low a threshold for stress to live in a community where everyone's at each other's throats.
hell is other people
I recall that housing co-ops of some kind or other were promoted as the ideal when I was a young left winger. Yet reading this article ( and having read the previous one) , it seems that utopia is as far away as ever.
Housing co-ops are a bit like families - you don't have to like all the members, but somehow you have to try to get along with them. Burnage Village seems to have taken the family theme a bit further and their policy of omertà seems more rigorous than that of the mafia.
"Housing co-ops are a bit like families - you don't have to like all the members, but somehow you have to try to get along with them" - yes, couldn't agree more.
Fascinating and thought-provoking, as well as very sad. I do hope things somehow improve. It sounds as if they need their very own Truth and Reconciliation Commission ...
Thanks for the kind words and for giving this extremely long essay a read. Yes, good shout! Think they'd be overexcited to have one, from the sounds of things.
I wouldn’t last 5 minutes there. I can’t cope with this level of bureaucracy and process for everything, let alone the low level nastiness between neighbours.
It reads like their lives have become one long Handforth Parish Council meeting. How sad that such a lovely ideology has come to this.
Yes, exactly that — a lovely ideology that's descended into a lot of acrimony. As someone who would absolutely root for the ideas behind the village, I guess the question is: how do you solve it, or at least lessen the tension? And I've not quite figured this out — but maybe one of these days.