Forget grass and mud... with imagination and bus diversion Manchester could have a beautiful paved area with lots of trees, enormous plant pots, benches and high quality cafes near perimeter .
I always implore MCC to look at Nottingham’s Old Market Square as a great example of what they should do to revitalise the gardens. Like Piccadilly, it is a major hub of the city and it has tram lines running through it.
Opened in 2007, Gustafson Porter + Bowman’s brilliant design encourages safe 24 hour use and enables perimeter activity to spill out into the space. It has also given the city a flexible performance/event space while still offering soft landscaping and places to linger.
The materials – unlike our awful grass/mud and concrete wall - were selected to be sympathetic to their context and robust enough to stand the test of time. They used slip-resistant granite from Portugal that compliments the nearby buildings. The new granite terraces provided significantly more seating and create clever rows of benches and planters.
When I first visited after its transformation, I was so impressed – it felt like a proper European city square, and made my return to Manchester all the more depressing. Nottingham has proven that it isn’t impossible to get this right – I really don’t understand why MCC has found it so difficult!
In theory you can have any type of development there, nice public park, a forest(!), playground, public square, or just leave it alone. IF you police it well. Perhaps whatever becomes of PG should include a salary for a compulsory permanent 24 hour security team. Not to mention dedicated litter pickers.
i believe somebody mocked up an image where the old town hall facade, currently crumbling fenced off and literally gathering moss in Heaton Park, was moved to PG. It looked great. That would be a nice, relatively cheap, way to create a focal point.
As someone who avoids walking through Piccadilly because it is so grim, I'd be in favour of paving it over and instead take the green space upwards and instead of having grass that turns to mud use trees and put structures in that creates an aerial green space - taking inspiration from Singapore's botanical gardens for example. Get creative with greening that space. Because with planting comes wellbeing and lower crime. Also lose the temporary event space idea which never looks good and creates clutter, by creating a sense of permanence. As Mcr is such a rainy city this could be a partially covered space, or possibly a corridor of green cover as in Brisbane's left bank. As it is a disfunctional island in a sea of hard concrete and transport interchange so this also needs to be looked at from the perspective of the pedestrian first.
As a woman, I can only remember a short period where PG was an attractive place to go that being during the commonwealth games. At all other times it was and is to be avoided especially at night. It would be lovely to have an open square, paved, with beautiful trees to sit under. St Peters Square is lovely. I look forward to seeing the plans.
I was excited when I saw this pop up in my inbox this morning, the Mill has a history of getting under the skin of issues in Manchester and presenting new perspectives which is why I joined as a paying member.
I’m not sure this added anything we don’t already know (although it was good to see people finally acknowledging that the mythical sunken gardens weren’t all they were made out to be) Piccadilly Gardens is a complex space full of complicated issues.
For a long time I’ve believed that PG biggest issue is its reputation, there is crime here sure and bad things do happen, but The Mill campaigned for the removal of those awful platforms (and rightly so) on the basis that on a nice sunny day in summer Piccadilly Gardens can feel like a good place to be, people meeting friends for lunch, chatting sat on the grass.
You’ve included pictures of the containers currently in the area but not mentioned that they’re part of the redevelopment of the pavilion, the removal of the middle of the structure and redevelopment of Bunsik and Blank street units will have a big impact on how this section of the Gardens looks and feels. You can already tell the difference, as Vaughan mentions the F&B scene the area is thriving. There are some other exciting things happening in the surrounding area, like the Debenhams redevelopment or the Zedwell Hotel on the corner.
It’s also slightly unfair to criticise the lack of progress following the LDA announcement, rightly or wrongly anybody with any knowledge of how these things work knows a process like this (especially one led by a local authority) takes a long time, Mayfield took 6-7 years to plan and deliver albeit a much larger space. If the Council have any sense they will do a proper job of consulting on the designs once they’re ready to be shared publicly, and not just the lip service you see on some projects.
I grew up in Manchester in the 1960s. At their best, in Spring and Summer, the Gardens were very attractive. Like any public space the trick is making sure that anti social behaviour doesn't take root; once it does it is very difficult to reverse. With the pressure on council finances tge Gardens will need significant private sector investment to give the area the turnaround that it needs. It's interesting that we are still talking about the Gardens as a green space. For years the Gardens site has been an eyesore and a disgrace. For those who cannot remember the Gardens as they were all I can say you missed one of the things that made Manchester special. What once was could be again.
In my view, at a total space of 10 acres the area is too small and now has too high a footfall to try to make this the city's garden centrepiece. It would be a mistake and make the area seem claustrophobic. Better to open it up as a series of boulevards, seating areas, trees and smaller artificial grass areas. the space will look much brighter, more open and more useful. At the end of the day it is the city's main transport hub so maybe have statues that showcase our transport history - trains, trams, Manchester Ship Canal, the first Ford factory outside US etc.
Please no artificial grass. It doesn't age well and bad for biodiversity let alone leaving micro plastic particles in any water run off that is unable to permeate. Far better ,I feel, to not have grass real or otherwise at all . There are better solutions with large planters,seating maybe water in some form .
I'm not convinced the should council are be trusted with this given the last "improvements" 20 years ago resulted in the loss of a quarter of PG to construct an office block along Portland street in addition to Ando's ill-fated wall.
That office block sent me as a visitor who was there several times in the 90s and not back again until 2012. Why look at something as grand as the Watts Warehouse when you can have... that? Ugh. Then there's the Watts Warehouse and Britannia "Hotels" which is another story completely...
I remember the wannabe punks but there were only two. I never felt threatened. But I also remember the amazing blossom trees. The difference here is jobs. King St and Oldham St used to employ lots of white collar workers and civil servants. Now they’ve gone it’s just a magnet for lurking would be sex offenders and drug dealers. I think the backlash against the park is probably a PR campaign by Burnham to avoid the egg on face that the Labour Council buggered it up. As far as I’m aware the land was dedicated for the public of Manchester and then they built that weird, horrible red brick thing that serves no purpose at the end of it. It’s a classic local government cock up. And quite patently no-one who makes the decisions ever visits central Manchester.
Difficult to follow what you’re saying but I’ve always found the fascination with Andy Burnham bizarre. You know he has nothing to do with any decisions made in this context don’t you?
I walked through PG yesterday for the first time in ages, and remarked how it looked so much better than in recent times. It may be an unpopular view, but I don't dislike the current design. However, it seems to me that the problem is that the council keep allowing the space to be blocked off by various things. We had that monstrous construction over half of it for what seemed like years. Even now, there is a row of food huts that clutter the original design. Surely we have enough empty retail space to not need to constantly have temporary (or semi-permanent) huts popping up all over the place!
By all means move the busesd away if you can, then put something striking in it which will attract people. How about a full size bronze copy of the Science Museum's diplodocus?
I vote for the obsidian black spire
Whatever is done with it, it must have bees in it. Giant bee statue, honeycomb design paving, that sort of caper.
Maybe a little Hacienda shrine in one corner. But tasteful.
Real Bees only 😉🐝
Forget grass and mud... with imagination and bus diversion Manchester could have a beautiful paved area with lots of trees, enormous plant pots, benches and high quality cafes near perimeter .
I always implore MCC to look at Nottingham’s Old Market Square as a great example of what they should do to revitalise the gardens. Like Piccadilly, it is a major hub of the city and it has tram lines running through it.
Opened in 2007, Gustafson Porter + Bowman’s brilliant design encourages safe 24 hour use and enables perimeter activity to spill out into the space. It has also given the city a flexible performance/event space while still offering soft landscaping and places to linger.
The materials – unlike our awful grass/mud and concrete wall - were selected to be sympathetic to their context and robust enough to stand the test of time. They used slip-resistant granite from Portugal that compliments the nearby buildings. The new granite terraces provided significantly more seating and create clever rows of benches and planters.
When I first visited after its transformation, I was so impressed – it felt like a proper European city square, and made my return to Manchester all the more depressing. Nottingham has proven that it isn’t impossible to get this right – I really don’t understand why MCC has found it so difficult!
Really interesting, thanks Joe. We'll take a look.
In theory you can have any type of development there, nice public park, a forest(!), playground, public square, or just leave it alone. IF you police it well. Perhaps whatever becomes of PG should include a salary for a compulsory permanent 24 hour security team. Not to mention dedicated litter pickers.
i believe somebody mocked up an image where the old town hall facade, currently crumbling fenced off and literally gathering moss in Heaton Park, was moved to PG. It looked great. That would be a nice, relatively cheap, way to create a focal point.
Love this idea. I had forgotten seeing the colonnade in Heaton Park (pic here for anyone who hasn't seen it https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Heaton_Park_-_Town_Hall_Colonnade_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1748224.jpg)
As someone who avoids walking through Piccadilly because it is so grim, I'd be in favour of paving it over and instead take the green space upwards and instead of having grass that turns to mud use trees and put structures in that creates an aerial green space - taking inspiration from Singapore's botanical gardens for example. Get creative with greening that space. Because with planting comes wellbeing and lower crime. Also lose the temporary event space idea which never looks good and creates clutter, by creating a sense of permanence. As Mcr is such a rainy city this could be a partially covered space, or possibly a corridor of green cover as in Brisbane's left bank. As it is a disfunctional island in a sea of hard concrete and transport interchange so this also needs to be looked at from the perspective of the pedestrian first.
As a woman, I can only remember a short period where PG was an attractive place to go that being during the commonwealth games. At all other times it was and is to be avoided especially at night. It would be lovely to have an open square, paved, with beautiful trees to sit under. St Peters Square is lovely. I look forward to seeing the plans.
I was excited when I saw this pop up in my inbox this morning, the Mill has a history of getting under the skin of issues in Manchester and presenting new perspectives which is why I joined as a paying member.
I’m not sure this added anything we don’t already know (although it was good to see people finally acknowledging that the mythical sunken gardens weren’t all they were made out to be) Piccadilly Gardens is a complex space full of complicated issues.
For a long time I’ve believed that PG biggest issue is its reputation, there is crime here sure and bad things do happen, but The Mill campaigned for the removal of those awful platforms (and rightly so) on the basis that on a nice sunny day in summer Piccadilly Gardens can feel like a good place to be, people meeting friends for lunch, chatting sat on the grass.
You’ve included pictures of the containers currently in the area but not mentioned that they’re part of the redevelopment of the pavilion, the removal of the middle of the structure and redevelopment of Bunsik and Blank street units will have a big impact on how this section of the Gardens looks and feels. You can already tell the difference, as Vaughan mentions the F&B scene the area is thriving. There are some other exciting things happening in the surrounding area, like the Debenhams redevelopment or the Zedwell Hotel on the corner.
It’s also slightly unfair to criticise the lack of progress following the LDA announcement, rightly or wrongly anybody with any knowledge of how these things work knows a process like this (especially one led by a local authority) takes a long time, Mayfield took 6-7 years to plan and deliver albeit a much larger space. If the Council have any sense they will do a proper job of consulting on the designs once they’re ready to be shared publicly, and not just the lip service you see on some projects.
I grew up in Manchester in the 1960s. At their best, in Spring and Summer, the Gardens were very attractive. Like any public space the trick is making sure that anti social behaviour doesn't take root; once it does it is very difficult to reverse. With the pressure on council finances tge Gardens will need significant private sector investment to give the area the turnaround that it needs. It's interesting that we are still talking about the Gardens as a green space. For years the Gardens site has been an eyesore and a disgrace. For those who cannot remember the Gardens as they were all I can say you missed one of the things that made Manchester special. What once was could be again.
I expect the Mill would be the first to have something to say if the Gardens were funded (and looked after) by private investment.
In my view, at a total space of 10 acres the area is too small and now has too high a footfall to try to make this the city's garden centrepiece. It would be a mistake and make the area seem claustrophobic. Better to open it up as a series of boulevards, seating areas, trees and smaller artificial grass areas. the space will look much brighter, more open and more useful. At the end of the day it is the city's main transport hub so maybe have statues that showcase our transport history - trains, trams, Manchester Ship Canal, the first Ford factory outside US etc.
Please no artificial grass. It doesn't age well and bad for biodiversity let alone leaving micro plastic particles in any water run off that is unable to permeate. Far better ,I feel, to not have grass real or otherwise at all . There are better solutions with large planters,seating maybe water in some form .
Fair comment - I was thinking more of the low-maintenance element and something to cope with the footfall throughout the year.
I like your suggestion of boulevards crossing the area even if only for pedestrians. Love large planters they can look great.
I'm not convinced the should council are be trusted with this given the last "improvements" 20 years ago resulted in the loss of a quarter of PG to construct an office block along Portland street in addition to Ando's ill-fated wall.
That office block sent me as a visitor who was there several times in the 90s and not back again until 2012. Why look at something as grand as the Watts Warehouse when you can have... that? Ugh. Then there's the Watts Warehouse and Britannia "Hotels" which is another story completely...
I remember the wannabe punks but there were only two. I never felt threatened. But I also remember the amazing blossom trees. The difference here is jobs. King St and Oldham St used to employ lots of white collar workers and civil servants. Now they’ve gone it’s just a magnet for lurking would be sex offenders and drug dealers. I think the backlash against the park is probably a PR campaign by Burnham to avoid the egg on face that the Labour Council buggered it up. As far as I’m aware the land was dedicated for the public of Manchester and then they built that weird, horrible red brick thing that serves no purpose at the end of it. It’s a classic local government cock up. And quite patently no-one who makes the decisions ever visits central Manchester.
Difficult to follow what you’re saying but I’ve always found the fascination with Andy Burnham bizarre. You know he has nothing to do with any decisions made in this context don’t you?
Here's the link for the mock up
https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Piccadilly-Gardens-IDEA-not-official-AT-ALL-North-Made-Studios-c-North-Made-Studios-1.jpg
Even imagining this without the flowers looks wonderful!
I walked through PG yesterday for the first time in ages, and remarked how it looked so much better than in recent times. It may be an unpopular view, but I don't dislike the current design. However, it seems to me that the problem is that the council keep allowing the space to be blocked off by various things. We had that monstrous construction over half of it for what seemed like years. Even now, there is a row of food huts that clutter the original design. Surely we have enough empty retail space to not need to constantly have temporary (or semi-permanent) huts popping up all over the place!
By all means move the busesd away if you can, then put something striking in it which will attract people. How about a full size bronze copy of the Science Museum's diplodocus?