Agreed that further pedestrianisation would be great in the city centre. But there’s more that could be done in the interim.
As a walker and cyclist, there’s lots of issues around the city that make it difficult to get around: insufficient space on the footpaths, too many signs on the street plonked in the middle of paths, bike paths that run out at random points of the journey. So there’s definitely design issues.
But another major issue that isn’t talked about is the scourge of Deliveroo/Uber Eats riders. They don’t respect the road rules, constantly run red lights and nearly hit pedestrians, etc. The fact they’re incentivised on quick delivery means they’re also incentivised to break the rules.. We need better street policing on the city (or better relationships with these gig economy companies) to make it safer to walk/cycle in Manchester.
Thanks for your comment Zac, you raise a really interesting point - that more pedestrianisation needs to be matched by increased/ better street policing - that hadn't occurred to me. Also agree on the poor design of some city centre streets. The delivery rider point is interesting too, and I think it touches on a theme in other comments, which is how, while pedestrians and cyclists are talked about under the same "active travel" umbrella, there's still work to do in making them work safely together in the city. Thanks again for commenting.
Honestly when I'm on foot in Manchester I really notice how poorly designed the urban realm is, even in pedestrianised areas. I moved to London about a month ago and most places for pedestrians are paved in nice surfaces with trees, benches etc. Whereas in Manchester it's often a sea of tarmac or uneven decades old paving that still doesn't feel welcoming even when the cars are gone! Surfaces make a big difference. Market Street is an example of a pedestrianised area done well. Leeds also has good pedestrianised areas in the city centre and feels more like a place for people.
Thanks for your comment Stella - I agree, it seems to be getting more and more difficult to get around the city on foot. I've stepped on more loose flags than my share. And, it's especially frustrating when you compare to other cities, and doubly frustrating when, as you point out, the best example of pedestrianisation in the city is 41 years old. Thanks again for commenting.
Whilst the premise of these changes is agreeable, the implementation is not. Pedestrianisation is good for business - Market St records large footfall everyday due to a lack of vehicles - but it isn't designed for cyclists and so the risk of being mowed down by an electric bike is low.
The term "active modes" is a misleading one as a space for walking isn't necessarily a space for cycling. Take the new cycle lane on Thomas St and it's easy to see that this infrastructure isn't great for cyclists nor pedestrians. Instead, the council should build streets where space allocated for walking/cycling/vehicles is obvious, without the need for a myriad of confusing signs, and that priority doesn't require burdening numbers of traffic signals.
And why oh why is a bus company able to throw a spanner in the works of properly pedestrianising Stevenson's Sq.
Thomas St is one of the worst examples of recent pedestrianisation in the city. Far too crammed with outdoor seating to be a viable route for cyclists or pedestrians, as you point out. If streets were as well allocated as Oxford Road, for example, it'd make life a lot easier. That said, Oxford road still has its share of obstructing signage.
Agree with you Lewis on Thomas Street. I attended a consultation on the proposed cycle route at the craft centre a few years ago and asked what the justification for that particular choice of route was. Cue offended silence from the assembled MCC Highways posse who seemed surprised that anyone might dare to question their benevolent gift of a partially segregated cycle lane from nearish Shudehill to somewhere over by Newton Street.
And in terms of Stevenson Square, apparently the opposition from the bus company to the TRO was on the basis of hardship, I.e. being unable to loop out of service buses back round to the Gardens via the Square, instead having to head up to Gt Ancoats and then back in. Apparently this will cease to be an issue once franchising has kicked in (unless the taxi drivers also revolt), so expect works in Stevenson Sq to roll on into 2025 or beyond.
Manchester certainly lacks visual harmony in its city centre when compared to other European cities of a similar size and importance.My stomach sinks every time I arrive by train into the city centre and see its identikit lego towers on the horizon.Street planning is a key part of both traffic circulation and socio economic wellbeing.An effort to link the various squares and plazas by pedestrian walkways and trams would make the city more welcoming and promote both business activity and tourism.But I remember similar debates and wasted funds on projects in the 70's and 80's to address the incoherence of the city centre.Could a planning czar be imported from the Continent or the US to give us new inspiration?
Linking areas is such an interesting idea. The only current example that comes to mind is Albert and St Peter's Square, and that works great, even if the connection is currently overhung with scaffolding etc. Thanks for the comment.
You're absolutely right on pedestrianisation within the regional core, however that's only half the battle. Sorting out the woeful ped/cycle facilities elsewhere (including the fringes of the centre) is also badly needed. How many junctions on the Inner Ring Road still have arms without any form of pedestrian crossing, including the recently completed Great Ancoats Street scheme? I'd also respectfully disagree with Cllr. Wheeler's comments on MCC's Highways (a telling name) department's car centric ethos - whilst spatial balance between modes is always going to be tricky, I think they've reverted to type on some recent schemes and designed highways schemes with some active mode consideration layered in, rather than something more appropriate to the wider aspirations of the council and others. Cultural change is, I feel, required.
Yeah, a lack of pedestrian crossings is a bit of a nightmare if you're walking out of/ around the fringes of the city. Those spaces really haven't been designed with people in mind. Thanks for the comment.
I'm a huge fan of pedestrianised spaces - being fortunate enough to live at the back of Cutting Room Square it felt counter intuitive to re-open it to vehicles post lockdown and I'm glad it, and other roads in the NQ, are back to, or moving towards, pedestrianisation. However with regards to the comment "for turning more of our streets into pleasant walkways where you don’t fear being run over at any moment" in the article, I have to utterly disagree. The risk from cars running you over may be reduced in these pedestrianised areas, but cyclists and electric scooter riders have, on the whole, absolute disregard for pedestrians, and pavements are just as much their 'carriageways' as roads are. One can easily be run over by any vehicle in these spaces as a pedestrian, and it gets right on my nerves.
Thanks for the comment Caroline, and yes, I think you touch on a broader theme in the comments: that much more work is required to not only cut traffic in the city centre but also make pedestrians and cyclists co-exist safely. The kind of clear cut divides you see on Oxford road is one option, although as Zac points out that doesn't always work with delivery riders pressed for time and also cycling away from those main thoroughfares. Definitely something we should look into more. Thanks for the comment.
Agreed that further pedestrianisation would be great in the city centre. But there’s more that could be done in the interim.
As a walker and cyclist, there’s lots of issues around the city that make it difficult to get around: insufficient space on the footpaths, too many signs on the street plonked in the middle of paths, bike paths that run out at random points of the journey. So there’s definitely design issues.
But another major issue that isn’t talked about is the scourge of Deliveroo/Uber Eats riders. They don’t respect the road rules, constantly run red lights and nearly hit pedestrians, etc. The fact they’re incentivised on quick delivery means they’re also incentivised to break the rules.. We need better street policing on the city (or better relationships with these gig economy companies) to make it safer to walk/cycle in Manchester.
Thanks for your comment Zac, you raise a really interesting point - that more pedestrianisation needs to be matched by increased/ better street policing - that hadn't occurred to me. Also agree on the poor design of some city centre streets. The delivery rider point is interesting too, and I think it touches on a theme in other comments, which is how, while pedestrians and cyclists are talked about under the same "active travel" umbrella, there's still work to do in making them work safely together in the city. Thanks again for commenting.
Honestly when I'm on foot in Manchester I really notice how poorly designed the urban realm is, even in pedestrianised areas. I moved to London about a month ago and most places for pedestrians are paved in nice surfaces with trees, benches etc. Whereas in Manchester it's often a sea of tarmac or uneven decades old paving that still doesn't feel welcoming even when the cars are gone! Surfaces make a big difference. Market Street is an example of a pedestrianised area done well. Leeds also has good pedestrianised areas in the city centre and feels more like a place for people.
Thanks for your comment Stella - I agree, it seems to be getting more and more difficult to get around the city on foot. I've stepped on more loose flags than my share. And, it's especially frustrating when you compare to other cities, and doubly frustrating when, as you point out, the best example of pedestrianisation in the city is 41 years old. Thanks again for commenting.
Whilst the premise of these changes is agreeable, the implementation is not. Pedestrianisation is good for business - Market St records large footfall everyday due to a lack of vehicles - but it isn't designed for cyclists and so the risk of being mowed down by an electric bike is low.
The term "active modes" is a misleading one as a space for walking isn't necessarily a space for cycling. Take the new cycle lane on Thomas St and it's easy to see that this infrastructure isn't great for cyclists nor pedestrians. Instead, the council should build streets where space allocated for walking/cycling/vehicles is obvious, without the need for a myriad of confusing signs, and that priority doesn't require burdening numbers of traffic signals.
And why oh why is a bus company able to throw a spanner in the works of properly pedestrianising Stevenson's Sq.
Thomas St is one of the worst examples of recent pedestrianisation in the city. Far too crammed with outdoor seating to be a viable route for cyclists or pedestrians, as you point out. If streets were as well allocated as Oxford Road, for example, it'd make life a lot easier. That said, Oxford road still has its share of obstructing signage.
Agree with you Lewis on Thomas Street. I attended a consultation on the proposed cycle route at the craft centre a few years ago and asked what the justification for that particular choice of route was. Cue offended silence from the assembled MCC Highways posse who seemed surprised that anyone might dare to question their benevolent gift of a partially segregated cycle lane from nearish Shudehill to somewhere over by Newton Street.
And in terms of Stevenson Square, apparently the opposition from the bus company to the TRO was on the basis of hardship, I.e. being unable to loop out of service buses back round to the Gardens via the Square, instead having to head up to Gt Ancoats and then back in. Apparently this will cease to be an issue once franchising has kicked in (unless the taxi drivers also revolt), so expect works in Stevenson Sq to roll on into 2025 or beyond.
Manchester certainly lacks visual harmony in its city centre when compared to other European cities of a similar size and importance.My stomach sinks every time I arrive by train into the city centre and see its identikit lego towers on the horizon.Street planning is a key part of both traffic circulation and socio economic wellbeing.An effort to link the various squares and plazas by pedestrian walkways and trams would make the city more welcoming and promote both business activity and tourism.But I remember similar debates and wasted funds on projects in the 70's and 80's to address the incoherence of the city centre.Could a planning czar be imported from the Continent or the US to give us new inspiration?
Linking areas is such an interesting idea. The only current example that comes to mind is Albert and St Peter's Square, and that works great, even if the connection is currently overhung with scaffolding etc. Thanks for the comment.
You're absolutely right on pedestrianisation within the regional core, however that's only half the battle. Sorting out the woeful ped/cycle facilities elsewhere (including the fringes of the centre) is also badly needed. How many junctions on the Inner Ring Road still have arms without any form of pedestrian crossing, including the recently completed Great Ancoats Street scheme? I'd also respectfully disagree with Cllr. Wheeler's comments on MCC's Highways (a telling name) department's car centric ethos - whilst spatial balance between modes is always going to be tricky, I think they've reverted to type on some recent schemes and designed highways schemes with some active mode consideration layered in, rather than something more appropriate to the wider aspirations of the council and others. Cultural change is, I feel, required.
Yeah, a lack of pedestrian crossings is a bit of a nightmare if you're walking out of/ around the fringes of the city. Those spaces really haven't been designed with people in mind. Thanks for the comment.
I'm a huge fan of pedestrianised spaces - being fortunate enough to live at the back of Cutting Room Square it felt counter intuitive to re-open it to vehicles post lockdown and I'm glad it, and other roads in the NQ, are back to, or moving towards, pedestrianisation. However with regards to the comment "for turning more of our streets into pleasant walkways where you don’t fear being run over at any moment" in the article, I have to utterly disagree. The risk from cars running you over may be reduced in these pedestrianised areas, but cyclists and electric scooter riders have, on the whole, absolute disregard for pedestrians, and pavements are just as much their 'carriageways' as roads are. One can easily be run over by any vehicle in these spaces as a pedestrian, and it gets right on my nerves.
Thanks for the comment Caroline, and yes, I think you touch on a broader theme in the comments: that much more work is required to not only cut traffic in the city centre but also make pedestrians and cyclists co-exist safely. The kind of clear cut divides you see on Oxford road is one option, although as Zac points out that doesn't always work with delivery riders pressed for time and also cycling away from those main thoroughfares. Definitely something we should look into more. Thanks for the comment.