This was a fascinating, and rather dispiriting read, really. That this took so long to resolve, and that it seems like it was resolved in a way that was on the table a year ago - well, that is just rotten. Night & Day's failure to engage here is quite something; they were not shy of talking to the media before the ruling, but suddenly to decide they are camera shy? It would have been to their credit to address things directly; as it is, when confronted with these facts, they just look awkward
That and dragging the whole thing out for longer, costing the council thousands, rather than just settling on a solution they ended up with anyway? It does not speak well of the venue
Thanks for your comment Tim. Think both N&D's and the council's eagerness to move on from the dispute says a lot. It was dragged on without real cause. Thanks again for reading.
Good balanced piece. Not much to add other than to say that throughout this saga people like Dave Haslam have only made the situation worse for everybody involved, there was never any intention for the Council to ‘intentionally blow a hole in Night and Day’
The fact is that pitching this as the music industry vs the big bad local authority suit their agenda, despite so many opportunities to stop it going this far.
If this debacle was reframed as a battle of the senses I'd argue it's akin to moving into a flat behind Faulkner St and complaining about the overpowering smell of star anise
Great article. I was around when Night and Day started, Jan was a family friend. The clue is in the name really, Night and Day, a cafe bar that was open night and day, in a part of the city whose dwellers were mostly night people. Jan himself lived round the corner on Tib Street, he was affable and cantankerous. Marion were the first band to play and rehearse there, before that there was no music there. During the 90s Night and Day became a renowned gig venue, then the DJ nights started filling in gaps in the schedule. Bands were rehearsing on the upper floors in the 90s and early 2000s, in daytimes and early evenings, so there was constant music noise coming from the venue the not only at night times.
I moved on around 2001 and as I left the city I could see how the tensions between the needs of the potential city dwellers and the booze and nightlife fuelled regeneration of the city would lead to conflicts as areas like Oldham street gentrified. This is how city centre communities grow, wrought into form from the debris of battles.
I think Tony Wilson was right on this, but then I think living in the heart of this particular city is a kind of tripped out Burroughsian idealism.
My Dad Joe was heavily involved with Night and Day too, his connections helped establish the place as a concert venue, he and Jan were old friends and colleagues in the rag trade in the 1970s. Both 'Mavericks' which is an intriguing concept, something I'm writing about, these postwar mavericks and their works and what was left in their wake.
Thanks for your comments David. That's interesting, I understood Jan had the flat above N&D. You raise a really good point: how the work of the old "maverick" operators of the 90s and 00s that helped established the scene adapt as the city develops around them. Thanks for reading.
Great article Jack, there's a lot of layers to this saga, it's refreshing to read your story.
Jan was in Tib street throughout the 90s, the floors above the cafe were undeveloped then and used for rehearsals. I was around when Jan was establishing and growing the venue, he had to endure a lot of pressures from different angles, we joked that Oldham street was like the Wild West back then, in that regard the term Maverick is not used lightly. I was gone by 2001 though and only visited occasionally since, he spent much of his later days at sea or planning his next voyages.
Everybody has got what they could expect to get from digging their heels in. The question about what a community in the NQ (beyond bars) looks like is the more interesting one.
Agreed, lots of talk about the implications going forward (whether NaN's will be dished out more often). Personally think this is a singular case, as seen by the number of complaints that actually result in NaNs. Thanks for reading Nigel.
I enjoyed this article - balanced and well-written, more of the same please. Having lived in Tib st. for many years from the late nineties I can empathise with both parties, but feel as though N&D could have put the matter to bed early in the piece if they wanted. However I guess that no publicity is bad publicity.
A lot of hard work went into this article Jack. Even though i didn't think it would interest me, like the previous comment ,I was keen to understand all the arguments. Thanks for your perseverance Jack in writing it .
Loved the piece and can only echo the rest of the praise about bringing nuance to an otherwise over simplified narrative/highlighting so many new and interesting facets in a story most of us would have assumed had been saturated with press coverage.
Just caught up on the last few podcast episodes including the one that discusses this story - looking forward to a future writer’s edition deep dive into noise limiters sponsored by Richer Sounds …
The whole Night & Day debate misses the point that urban Manchester and Salford are taking a large number of housing under the government mandated spatial framework to save building on greenbelt land elsewhere in Greater Manchester. Whilst high density urban planning makes sense on paper it comes with challenges. Manchester City centre used to have a population of around 5000 in the early 00s, it’s due to have a population of 100,000 by the turn of the decade which is the size of a small local authority in a square mile. On top of this we also have a growing night time economy. This sort of challenge is only going to reoccur I’m afraid which will pull on council resources to manage that are already considerably constrained.
As someone who used to go to N&D a lot in the 00s, and when the 2014 and 2021 NaNs were served was firmly on the side of the venue as the 'victim', this piece is a good reminder that there's always more than one side to a story. Jack's investigation has made me rethink who has controlled the narrative in this barney.
This was a fascinating, and rather dispiriting read, really. That this took so long to resolve, and that it seems like it was resolved in a way that was on the table a year ago - well, that is just rotten. Night & Day's failure to engage here is quite something; they were not shy of talking to the media before the ruling, but suddenly to decide they are camera shy? It would have been to their credit to address things directly; as it is, when confronted with these facts, they just look awkward
That and dragging the whole thing out for longer, costing the council thousands, rather than just settling on a solution they ended up with anyway? It does not speak well of the venue
Thanks for your comment Tim. Think both N&D's and the council's eagerness to move on from the dispute says a lot. It was dragged on without real cause. Thanks again for reading.
Good balanced piece. Not much to add other than to say that throughout this saga people like Dave Haslam have only made the situation worse for everybody involved, there was never any intention for the Council to ‘intentionally blow a hole in Night and Day’
The fact is that pitching this as the music industry vs the big bad local authority suit their agenda, despite so many opportunities to stop it going this far.
Thanks AA. And yes, seemed a narrative took hold from the start and for many was hard to shake. Thanks again for reading!
Finally, an interesting, thoughtful and well contextualised piece that I have been desperate to read for so long. Thanks Jack.
Many thanks Gerard!
If this debacle was reframed as a battle of the senses I'd argue it's akin to moving into a flat behind Faulkner St and complaining about the overpowering smell of star anise
Although I suppose an overwhelming smell of star anise would be more likely to help you sleep lol - thanks for reading Pete!
Come on. It was crying out for “Night & Day not black and white” as a title!
Let me get this straight… N&D could have put this to bed ages ago and had the work done that would fix it, but they… didn’t?
Sounds like someone likes the attention.
Thanks for reading Ellie! And yeah, was an undeniable marketing boost.
Great article. I was around when Night and Day started, Jan was a family friend. The clue is in the name really, Night and Day, a cafe bar that was open night and day, in a part of the city whose dwellers were mostly night people. Jan himself lived round the corner on Tib Street, he was affable and cantankerous. Marion were the first band to play and rehearse there, before that there was no music there. During the 90s Night and Day became a renowned gig venue, then the DJ nights started filling in gaps in the schedule. Bands were rehearsing on the upper floors in the 90s and early 2000s, in daytimes and early evenings, so there was constant music noise coming from the venue the not only at night times.
I moved on around 2001 and as I left the city I could see how the tensions between the needs of the potential city dwellers and the booze and nightlife fuelled regeneration of the city would lead to conflicts as areas like Oldham street gentrified. This is how city centre communities grow, wrought into form from the debris of battles.
I think Tony Wilson was right on this, but then I think living in the heart of this particular city is a kind of tripped out Burroughsian idealism.
My Dad Joe was heavily involved with Night and Day too, his connections helped establish the place as a concert venue, he and Jan were old friends and colleagues in the rag trade in the 1970s. Both 'Mavericks' which is an intriguing concept, something I'm writing about, these postwar mavericks and their works and what was left in their wake.
Thanks for your comments David. That's interesting, I understood Jan had the flat above N&D. You raise a really good point: how the work of the old "maverick" operators of the 90s and 00s that helped established the scene adapt as the city develops around them. Thanks for reading.
Great article Jack, there's a lot of layers to this saga, it's refreshing to read your story.
Jan was in Tib street throughout the 90s, the floors above the cafe were undeveloped then and used for rehearsals. I was around when Jan was establishing and growing the venue, he had to endure a lot of pressures from different angles, we joked that Oldham street was like the Wild West back then, in that regard the term Maverick is not used lightly. I was gone by 2001 though and only visited occasionally since, he spent much of his later days at sea or planning his next voyages.
Oh man I've been waiting for this article for so long. Great job!
Thanks Petnor!
Everybody has got what they could expect to get from digging their heels in. The question about what a community in the NQ (beyond bars) looks like is the more interesting one.
Agreed, lots of talk about the implications going forward (whether NaN's will be dished out more often). Personally think this is a singular case, as seen by the number of complaints that actually result in NaNs. Thanks for reading Nigel.
I enjoyed this article - balanced and well-written, more of the same please. Having lived in Tib st. for many years from the late nineties I can empathise with both parties, but feel as though N&D could have put the matter to bed early in the piece if they wanted. However I guess that no publicity is bad publicity.
Thanks for reaching Frank - glad you enjoyed!
Brilliant reporting from Jack again.
Thanks Michael!
A lot of hard work went into this article Jack. Even though i didn't think it would interest me, like the previous comment ,I was keen to understand all the arguments. Thanks for your perseverance Jack in writing it .
Many thanks Anne! Glad you enjoyed.
Loved the piece and can only echo the rest of the praise about bringing nuance to an otherwise over simplified narrative/highlighting so many new and interesting facets in a story most of us would have assumed had been saturated with press coverage.
Just caught up on the last few podcast episodes including the one that discusses this story - looking forward to a future writer’s edition deep dive into noise limiters sponsored by Richer Sounds …
The whole Night & Day debate misses the point that urban Manchester and Salford are taking a large number of housing under the government mandated spatial framework to save building on greenbelt land elsewhere in Greater Manchester. Whilst high density urban planning makes sense on paper it comes with challenges. Manchester City centre used to have a population of around 5000 in the early 00s, it’s due to have a population of 100,000 by the turn of the decade which is the size of a small local authority in a square mile. On top of this we also have a growing night time economy. This sort of challenge is only going to reoccur I’m afraid which will pull on council resources to manage that are already considerably constrained.
As someone who used to go to N&D a lot in the 00s, and when the 2014 and 2021 NaNs were served was firmly on the side of the venue as the 'victim', this piece is a good reminder that there's always more than one side to a story. Jack's investigation has made me rethink who has controlled the narrative in this barney.
Thanks Tony - much appreciated!