Thank you for this and for highlighting Goldens book. It's frustrating how women get written out of history in every generation. It's worth asking "what are women doing here?"and "how will the subject matter of this story impact women differently to men?" In EVERY story fir the Mill. At least current records can highlight what women are doing now.
Lindsay is an absolute star and was an important person for me to talk to when I curated the Science and Industry Museum exhibition, which was called Use Hearing Protection: The Early Years of Factory Records, by the way, not Unknown Treasures. Including the women's stories was important to me, as a woman who grew up in Greater Manchester with Factory as my soundtrack. Lindsay was particularly generous in her time, sharing her knowledge of the label's beginnings, as was Ann Quigley of Kalima, who was writing her own memoir at the time.
I came away from the experience of developing the narrative for that exhibition with a sense that, for some people with ties to the Factory story, there is a specific legacy to protect and the inclusion of the women might be perceived as diluting that legacy. As Bruce Mitchell says in the article, the men tended to shout louder. The women I spoke to for the exhibition came across as the engine room - making sure the practical things got done while the men were off shouting about the label. For me, they represent the forefront of women emerging from the traditional role of wife/mother/homemaker that their own mothers would have embodied and paving the way for future generations of women to take a more prominent place in the music industry. That's why I wanted them in the exhibition.
Great article, Ophelia. That Lindsay has to keep advocating for her place in history shows there's still a way to go in opening out the Factory legend.
Through that exhibition it was the first time i'd heard of all these women who were the foundations and backbone of the label and i've lived here 43 years bombarded by a very different narrative! I know others discovered the same which has changed their views also.
Great piece, and sounds like a great book as well - an actually interesting spin on the Factory/Madchester history! The revisionism that writes women out of music history even in scenes like this where they were both integral and broadly having a good time is so frustrating and self-defeating. To this day and almost definitely as a result of women being written out of its history, alternative music is still seen as a boys' club and the archetypal fan is the '6 music dad' when that couldn't be further from the truth both in who's making the music (tastemakers like the Wire or Quietus mags broadly have gender parity in their year-end lists, whether or not that's a conscious editorial choice) and who's keeping the scenes going, with Sounds from the Other City and Fat Out up here and Supersonic down in Birmingham all women-led ventures. Women have always been at the heart of these scenes but there's also always been a marked lack of interest from the men with the loudest voices in talking to us about it.
This is a great article and it's good to see all the positive responses from readers. Manchester's musical heritage is, of course, rich with hidden and forgotten people and communities, and it's important and fascinating to shine a light into those dark corners of our city's incredible history. I am one of the founders of the Manchester Digital Music Archive, an online community of music fans who share their own experiences and stories of Manchester music. We support other music archives across Greater Manchester to connect with each other and the general public, as a central repository for digital archival material, a mechanism for sign posting and access.
We are passionate about celebrating the hidden chapters and under-represented communities within Greater Manchester music. We believe that through crowd-sourcing artefacts we can democratise heritage and provide a platform for multiple versions of history to be shared. There is no hierarchy of 'merit' within our archive. The general public decides what is important and what is ‘heritage’. The wonderful Jan Hicks, who is on this thread, was involved in our launch in 2003 and still offers support.
Please do take a look at our site (and more importantly, get involved: URL at the end of this comment).
Throughout our 22 years (and counting) we have organised many events and exhibitions, including the sold out 2006 'Blues & Gospel Train' event in Chorlton, the 'Defining Me' exhibition at the Lowry in 2014, the superb 'We Are Dynamite! Northern Carnival 1978' exhibition in Hulme in 2018, and the brilliant and important, 'Suffragette City - Women in Manchester Music' exhibition held in the Refuge, also in 2018. We organised discussions exploring women in Manchester music at the Louder Than Words Festival, and we are currently in the middle of placing blue plaques around the boroughs to highlight the importance of Manchester women of colour in music, including Denise Johnson and Diane Charlemagne. If this appeals to you, go to www.mdmarchive.co.uk, sign up, start sharing and keep an eye out for our future events this year (and beyond). Thanks.
Thanks for this Mat! Could you possibly send me an email at ophira@millmediaco.uk? I have a feeling you could be helpful for another piece I'm working on. And I'll check out the archive now!
Thanks for writing this. I’ve read and watched everything I can ever get my hands on about this period in Manchester history and it’s never crossed my mind until reading this how few women are included in the stories.
And the irony of Factory rising from the ashes of punk, which itself was such a liberating movement for women, and had some very influential women at its centre, is pretty inescapable here.
But it is usually men who shout loudest, so I suppose we shouldn’t be too surprised by this absence of the key women from Factory’s history.
Thanks for this! Never realized how much of a tosser Tony W could be towards women ! How sad… but I suppose that was symptomatic of the time in general, and the music biz in particular. At least we can appreciate Lyndsay s achievement now, very late…
Thank you for this and for highlighting Goldens book. It's frustrating how women get written out of history in every generation. It's worth asking "what are women doing here?"and "how will the subject matter of this story impact women differently to men?" In EVERY story fir the Mill. At least current records can highlight what women are doing now.
Lindsay is an absolute star and was an important person for me to talk to when I curated the Science and Industry Museum exhibition, which was called Use Hearing Protection: The Early Years of Factory Records, by the way, not Unknown Treasures. Including the women's stories was important to me, as a woman who grew up in Greater Manchester with Factory as my soundtrack. Lindsay was particularly generous in her time, sharing her knowledge of the label's beginnings, as was Ann Quigley of Kalima, who was writing her own memoir at the time.
I came away from the experience of developing the narrative for that exhibition with a sense that, for some people with ties to the Factory story, there is a specific legacy to protect and the inclusion of the women might be perceived as diluting that legacy. As Bruce Mitchell says in the article, the men tended to shout louder. The women I spoke to for the exhibition came across as the engine room - making sure the practical things got done while the men were off shouting about the label. For me, they represent the forefront of women emerging from the traditional role of wife/mother/homemaker that their own mothers would have embodied and paving the way for future generations of women to take a more prominent place in the music industry. That's why I wanted them in the exhibition.
Great article, Ophelia. That Lindsay has to keep advocating for her place in history shows there's still a way to go in opening out the Factory legend.
Through that exhibition it was the first time i'd heard of all these women who were the foundations and backbone of the label and i've lived here 43 years bombarded by a very different narrative! I know others discovered the same which has changed their views also.
That's lovely to hear and makes me even more glad that I could represent their stories in the exhibition.
Thanks for this Jan! I spoke to Ann briefly too, but unfortunately it was too late to be included. Will ammend the name mix-up now!
Sorry for the Ophelia - I hadn't noticed that before I clicked on the arrow and can't edit it!
Excellent read, thank you. But another Mill article that’s going to cost me. Just ordered the book 😀
Great piece, and sounds like a great book as well - an actually interesting spin on the Factory/Madchester history! The revisionism that writes women out of music history even in scenes like this where they were both integral and broadly having a good time is so frustrating and self-defeating. To this day and almost definitely as a result of women being written out of its history, alternative music is still seen as a boys' club and the archetypal fan is the '6 music dad' when that couldn't be further from the truth both in who's making the music (tastemakers like the Wire or Quietus mags broadly have gender parity in their year-end lists, whether or not that's a conscious editorial choice) and who's keeping the scenes going, with Sounds from the Other City and Fat Out up here and Supersonic down in Birmingham all women-led ventures. Women have always been at the heart of these scenes but there's also always been a marked lack of interest from the men with the loudest voices in talking to us about it.
This is a great article and it's good to see all the positive responses from readers. Manchester's musical heritage is, of course, rich with hidden and forgotten people and communities, and it's important and fascinating to shine a light into those dark corners of our city's incredible history. I am one of the founders of the Manchester Digital Music Archive, an online community of music fans who share their own experiences and stories of Manchester music. We support other music archives across Greater Manchester to connect with each other and the general public, as a central repository for digital archival material, a mechanism for sign posting and access.
We are passionate about celebrating the hidden chapters and under-represented communities within Greater Manchester music. We believe that through crowd-sourcing artefacts we can democratise heritage and provide a platform for multiple versions of history to be shared. There is no hierarchy of 'merit' within our archive. The general public decides what is important and what is ‘heritage’. The wonderful Jan Hicks, who is on this thread, was involved in our launch in 2003 and still offers support.
Please do take a look at our site (and more importantly, get involved: URL at the end of this comment).
Throughout our 22 years (and counting) we have organised many events and exhibitions, including the sold out 2006 'Blues & Gospel Train' event in Chorlton, the 'Defining Me' exhibition at the Lowry in 2014, the superb 'We Are Dynamite! Northern Carnival 1978' exhibition in Hulme in 2018, and the brilliant and important, 'Suffragette City - Women in Manchester Music' exhibition held in the Refuge, also in 2018. We organised discussions exploring women in Manchester music at the Louder Than Words Festival, and we are currently in the middle of placing blue plaques around the boroughs to highlight the importance of Manchester women of colour in music, including Denise Johnson and Diane Charlemagne. If this appeals to you, go to www.mdmarchive.co.uk, sign up, start sharing and keep an eye out for our future events this year (and beyond). Thanks.
Thanks for this Mat! Could you possibly send me an email at ophira@millmediaco.uk? I have a feeling you could be helpful for another piece I'm working on. And I'll check out the archive now!
Great article Ophira.
Thanks for writing this. I’ve read and watched everything I can ever get my hands on about this period in Manchester history and it’s never crossed my mind until reading this how few women are included in the stories.
When love breaks down…
And the irony of Factory rising from the ashes of punk, which itself was such a liberating movement for women, and had some very influential women at its centre, is pretty inescapable here.
But it is usually men who shout loudest, so I suppose we shouldn’t be too surprised by this absence of the key women from Factory’s history.
Thanks for this, Ophira!
Another excellent piece, Ophira, and how important it is to restore women to their rightful place in different histories.
Thank you!
Great piece, thank you for writing. Another great article by The Mill on a subject that needed light and air.
Thanks for this! Never realized how much of a tosser Tony W could be towards women ! How sad… but I suppose that was symptomatic of the time in general, and the music biz in particular. At least we can appreciate Lyndsay s achievement now, very late…