This guy is a joke though. Manctopia article claims over 3500 signed up, this article says almost 2500. No journalistic integrity-or maybe this just proves that there is no such thing, and so called journalists just make it all up anyway.
Thank you for this honest and factual breakdown of the newspaper industry. I am a second generation journo but the changes were too much for me as I couldn’t work for something I believed to be shallow and lacking community; I left in 2013 and now teach English but miss the days of proper journalism and being in the newsroom. I support you in all your efforts
Apologies for my tardiness (I've only just discovered The Mill) but thank god that Manchester is finally aiming for something a bit more highbrow and thoughtful than the trashy clickbait world of the MEN.
My partner was a local journalist at the MEN in it's heyday - working his way up -he then went on to work for the nationals - he's no longer in journalism for nearly all the reasons you state above, although he misses it a great deal (what it used to be not what it is today ) Have you thought about how to harness some of this local talent - people who have lived/ known the city for years? Often an outsider view combined with people who know the city inside out - can be an interesting combination of views.
Hi Josephine - thanks very much for commenting. Yes, we've absolutely tried to involved experienced journalists who have worked in the city for many years, but we are always looking to meet new ones. If your partner is interested in writing the odd thing for us, or just contributing to our reporting, please ask him to email The Mill's editor Joshi Herrmann (joshi@manchestermill.co.uk). Many thanks.
Not a Mancunian, but as a former local newspaper reporter I have been saddened by the decline in local news coverage. Good to see an alternative - more power to your elbow!
I have turned away from most news media outlets such as the MEN, the Times and other paper versions, I have turned away from the online outlets from such as the BBC, with the exceptions of BBC Sport and Sky Sports. I need to read something that will give me an unbiased viewpoint on the major topics of the day, the Pandemic, Brexit, the GMSF, as well as the 'true' stories in sport, not the fictional gossip that appears daily. Convince me with the weekly emails and I will gladly pay £7 per month or even more, a tenner a month would not break the bank for 30 days of incisive reporting, less than 35p (seven shillings) per day.
Are you going to hire the same “journalism” folk who work at the MEN at the moment or over the last 10 years?
The same folk who focus on two things: (a) writing tripe for views and (b) writing PR stories for their friends...all the while ignoring anything that’s going on in Manchester that actually matters or doesn’t exist within their friend circle?
I read a lot. I spend thousands on magazines and books each year. I write too. And I’m plugged in.
Saw and was involved with the beginning of the Manchester “startup” community yet it’s the same (stagnant and do nothing much) names being mentioned time and time again. This is still the case.
Saw and was involved with the beginning of the NQ’s take off as a night life hub yet the cool shit wasn’t covered until it was no longer cool.
And it goes on and on.
I like your idea. Yet I would hate to see the same MEN journalists being their narrow minded unable to do anything of any value selves and bringing more of the same tripe to the table.
I was only thinking about this a day or so ago. I think that in ten years time, there will be few, if any, printed newspapers. What interested me about this though is how Labour and its supporters constantly whinge and whine that they lose elections because of a biased press. That is going to be less and less credible as newspapers lose more and more influence. Basically, the newsfeed that many people prefer is their feed on Facebook or Twitter. That is what the internet has reduced us to.
Good luck with this endeavour Joshi, I really have enjoyed what you have published so far and I'm very much looking forward to my regular dose of "proper" local Manchester news.
That was a fascinating read. I didn’t realise online ads made so little money for newspapers!
They are spot on about focusing on quality over quantity. I believe in a vibrant free press.
My local paper (not sure if it’s still around) began to bore me, they kept focusing on court results. Excessively. I guess it was cheap to have someone sit in a court all day and ‘inform’ us about John Smith stealing deodorant from Boots! It got tedious, though.
It is a shame how many local newspapers are focusing on irrelevant stuff. I have zero interest in Piers Morgan or his latest arrogant spat with a minister. I don’t wish to see a local paper of mine focus on ‘reality’ shows that I have no interest in. I’d much rather see solid local stories, both good and bad.
Hi Joshi. If I can just correct a point you make in your article. There isn't a journalist at the MEN who has to write 13 stories a day. We don't set story count targets (which were often used to judge journalism during the hey day of print). We identify subjects people will be interested in, and subjects we think people should be interested in, and go from there. Sometimes stories take a few minutes to write, sometimes they take weeks. Sometimes those stories are read 1million times, sometimes 10,000 times.
An author's page on the MEN site may have 13 articles published in one day for a variety of reasons, but never because they have to hit a story count target.
Likewise, the written for advertiser v written for reader feels a false construct, at least at the MEN and the other titles within Reach which I work for. Every story is built around readers - do readers want to read this? How do we get people to want to read this? How can we write this to make sure people want to return? How do we ensure people feel they are getting what they expected? - not around advertisers. The advertising follows the reader. We don't write stories for advertisers, and the 'wall' ensuring those spending money on advertising doesn't influence what we're writing is as firm as ever.
This model has enabled the MEN reporting team across news and sport to increase in size for each of the last five years. There have been redundancies in that time, but there are more 'boots on the ground' now than at any point in the last 5 years. This approach also means that when holding power to account (a key function of any newsroom) we're able to be noisier, and therefore more effective than ever.
It's not enough, and we're always trying to work out how to fund more journalists in a way which is sustainable.
More journalism is always going to be a good thing, and I wish you the best of luck with what you are doing.
It's a little disingenuous to say you're writing for readers (not advertisers) when your business model depends on advertising first and foremost. Yes you're not writing advertorials and you might not even choose the adverts your readers see, but nevertheless you're writing content in order to attract readers in order to show advertisements to them. Getting the readers onto the page in order to look at lots of adverts is the blindingly obvious objective of MEN articles - the site is horrendous without an ad-blocker.
Worst news site I’ve ever used. It’s basically unusable because there are so many ads. A short article split into 10 sections to show 10 ads. It’s the most barmy thing I’ve ever seen online.
This guy is a joke though. Manctopia article claims over 3500 signed up, this article says almost 2500. No journalistic integrity-or maybe this just proves that there is no such thing, and so called journalists just make it all up anyway.
The articles were written almost a month apart Bill.... It was 2500 when this was written. Now it’s over 3500. What’s the confusion ?
Looking at the response I think an apology would be in order, Bill
Thank you for this honest and factual breakdown of the newspaper industry. I am a second generation journo but the changes were too much for me as I couldn’t work for something I believed to be shallow and lacking community; I left in 2013 and now teach English but miss the days of proper journalism and being in the newsroom. I support you in all your efforts
Thanks Barbara. Glad you liked the piece and hope you continue to enjoy The Mill.
Apologies for my tardiness (I've only just discovered The Mill) but thank god that Manchester is finally aiming for something a bit more highbrow and thoughtful than the trashy clickbait world of the MEN.
My partner was a local journalist at the MEN in it's heyday - working his way up -he then went on to work for the nationals - he's no longer in journalism for nearly all the reasons you state above, although he misses it a great deal (what it used to be not what it is today ) Have you thought about how to harness some of this local talent - people who have lived/ known the city for years? Often an outsider view combined with people who know the city inside out - can be an interesting combination of views.
Hi Josephine - thanks very much for commenting. Yes, we've absolutely tried to involved experienced journalists who have worked in the city for many years, but we are always looking to meet new ones. If your partner is interested in writing the odd thing for us, or just contributing to our reporting, please ask him to email The Mill's editor Joshi Herrmann (joshi@manchestermill.co.uk). Many thanks.
Not a Mancunian, but as a former local newspaper reporter I have been saddened by the decline in local news coverage. Good to see an alternative - more power to your elbow!
I have joined, and wish you every success.
I have turned away from most news media outlets such as the MEN, the Times and other paper versions, I have turned away from the online outlets from such as the BBC, with the exceptions of BBC Sport and Sky Sports. I need to read something that will give me an unbiased viewpoint on the major topics of the day, the Pandemic, Brexit, the GMSF, as well as the 'true' stories in sport, not the fictional gossip that appears daily. Convince me with the weekly emails and I will gladly pay £7 per month or even more, a tenner a month would not break the bank for 30 days of incisive reporting, less than 35p (seven shillings) per day.
Why do some articles say "only paying members can comment"? Kinda weird.
Good luck, and Godspeed.
https://iamcolorado.substack.com/
Are you going to hire the same “journalism” folk who work at the MEN at the moment or over the last 10 years?
The same folk who focus on two things: (a) writing tripe for views and (b) writing PR stories for their friends...all the while ignoring anything that’s going on in Manchester that actually matters or doesn’t exist within their friend circle?
I read a lot. I spend thousands on magazines and books each year. I write too. And I’m plugged in.
Saw and was involved with the beginning of the Manchester “startup” community yet it’s the same (stagnant and do nothing much) names being mentioned time and time again. This is still the case.
Saw and was involved with the beginning of the NQ’s take off as a night life hub yet the cool shit wasn’t covered until it was no longer cool.
And it goes on and on.
I like your idea. Yet I would hate to see the same MEN journalists being their narrow minded unable to do anything of any value selves and bringing more of the same tripe to the table.
I was only thinking about this a day or so ago. I think that in ten years time, there will be few, if any, printed newspapers. What interested me about this though is how Labour and its supporters constantly whinge and whine that they lose elections because of a biased press. That is going to be less and less credible as newspapers lose more and more influence. Basically, the newsfeed that many people prefer is their feed on Facebook or Twitter. That is what the internet has reduced us to.
Good luck with this endeavour Joshi, I really have enjoyed what you have published so far and I'm very much looking forward to my regular dose of "proper" local Manchester news.
Thanks very much John
That was a fascinating read. I didn’t realise online ads made so little money for newspapers!
They are spot on about focusing on quality over quantity. I believe in a vibrant free press.
My local paper (not sure if it’s still around) began to bore me, they kept focusing on court results. Excessively. I guess it was cheap to have someone sit in a court all day and ‘inform’ us about John Smith stealing deodorant from Boots! It got tedious, though.
It is a shame how many local newspapers are focusing on irrelevant stuff. I have zero interest in Piers Morgan or his latest arrogant spat with a minister. I don’t wish to see a local paper of mine focus on ‘reality’ shows that I have no interest in. I’d much rather see solid local stories, both good and bad.
So I wish this venture the best of luck!
Thanks Stephen.
Hi Joshi. If I can just correct a point you make in your article. There isn't a journalist at the MEN who has to write 13 stories a day. We don't set story count targets (which were often used to judge journalism during the hey day of print). We identify subjects people will be interested in, and subjects we think people should be interested in, and go from there. Sometimes stories take a few minutes to write, sometimes they take weeks. Sometimes those stories are read 1million times, sometimes 10,000 times.
An author's page on the MEN site may have 13 articles published in one day for a variety of reasons, but never because they have to hit a story count target.
Likewise, the written for advertiser v written for reader feels a false construct, at least at the MEN and the other titles within Reach which I work for. Every story is built around readers - do readers want to read this? How do we get people to want to read this? How can we write this to make sure people want to return? How do we ensure people feel they are getting what they expected? - not around advertisers. The advertising follows the reader. We don't write stories for advertisers, and the 'wall' ensuring those spending money on advertising doesn't influence what we're writing is as firm as ever.
This model has enabled the MEN reporting team across news and sport to increase in size for each of the last five years. There have been redundancies in that time, but there are more 'boots on the ground' now than at any point in the last 5 years. This approach also means that when holding power to account (a key function of any newsroom) we're able to be noisier, and therefore more effective than ever.
It's not enough, and we're always trying to work out how to fund more journalists in a way which is sustainable.
More journalism is always going to be a good thing, and I wish you the best of luck with what you are doing.
It's a little disingenuous to say you're writing for readers (not advertisers) when your business model depends on advertising first and foremost. Yes you're not writing advertorials and you might not even choose the adverts your readers see, but nevertheless you're writing content in order to attract readers in order to show advertisements to them. Getting the readers onto the page in order to look at lots of adverts is the blindingly obvious objective of MEN articles - the site is horrendous without an ad-blocker.
Worst news site I’ve ever used. It’s basically unusable because there are so many ads. A short article split into 10 sections to show 10 ads. It’s the most barmy thing I’ve ever seen online.
We need all the REAL Journalists we can get - NOT entertainment news.
Agreed